Jen Ford Reedy unpacks Bush Foundation book club pick, The Power of Bridging, and shares her optimism for how bridging can be a path forward
What does it look like for a different kind of civic discourse? I think you increasingly have people who are ready for another way. I think the fact that so many people responded to our offer of John's book is a meaningful indicator. If you think about whatever issue you really care about, it's not going to get solved by the people who already believe the thing that you believe talking to each other about how much they believe it. There's some part of bridging that is just essential for making change on any issue you care about.
Jen Ford Reedy:And so if you are somebody who says, I am not a bridger, then you are sitting out the core work of making change. It'd be really difficult to find any social change in history that didn't involve some really skilled bridgers trying to figure out how to bring other people in. So if people are thinking of bridging just as kind of a romantic concept, I think that's a misunderstanding of the power of bridging and the importance of bridging to making progress on really anything.
Ellen Wolter:That's Jen Ford Reedy, president of the Bush Foundation, unpacking the ideas shared in John Powell's book, The Power of Bridging. The Bush Foundation is offering free copies of John's book to anyone who lives and works in their service region. The Bush Foundation has had an overwhelming response to this offer and is working hard to fulfill thousands of requests for a copy of John's book. This response has led Jen to believe that people are ready for a new kind of civic discourse, one that involves more bridging to address the othering and polarization we are experiencing in our country and in our communities. I was fortunate to talk with John Powell last week about his book, and this week I talk with Jen about the ideas shared in John's book and what it means to apply those ideas to her work at the Bush Foundation and my work at Extension.
Ellen Wolter:We talk about how bridging requires a new mindset and set of skills that will involve practice, patience and continued learning. There isn't a roadmap on how to bridge. It is difficult and imperfect. And yet, what are the costs of not bridging? We are all navigating what bridging means in our communities.
Ellen Wolter:How do we bridge? Why should we bridge? Can we? And as Jen shares, community leaders and institutions like the Bush Foundation and Extension have an important role to play in modeling bridging practices and learning from those efforts. And most importantly, she notes, We need optimism in the belief that things can change.
Ellen Wolter:And as John reminded us in last week's episode, the future is not set, and a different civic discourse is possible. You can still request a free copy of John Powell's book, The Power of Bridging from the Bush Foundation. You can find a link in the show notes.
Jen Ford Reedy:When they've all had their quarrels and parted, we'll be the same as we started just to travel along singing a song side by side.
Ellen Wolter:This is Ellen Wolter from
Ellen Wolter:the University of Minnesota Extension, and welcome to
Ellen Wolter:the Side by Side podcast. Jen, I've seen a couple of your posts on LinkedIn about the Bush Foundation Book Club. And one of the things that I saw recently that you posted was that you initially planned for 900 books and that you're now at 5,900, and that was a couple weeks ago.
Jen Ford Reedy:That was a couple weeks ago, so it keeps growing. And the 900 was because we bought every copy that the publisher had at that time. And we didn't know, you know, what the response was gonna be, so we're we're delightedly challenged by the logistics of of now getting, you know, many thousand more books out to folks than than we thought. But we're excited, and it's still up on our website. We'd like for anyone in our region, which is Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and then 23 native nations that share that geography to order a book.
Jen Ford Reedy:We want as many people as possible to be reading and thinking and acting and the ideas in the book and related to bridging.
Ellen Wolter:Are you surprised at the response?
Jen Ford Reedy:I didn't know exactly what to respond. So I did ask around to some people who have written books or people in publishing to kinda say, what's a lot of books? Even trying to budget ahead for it. And we heard that a thousand is a lot of book. So I kinda thought, oh, maybe it'll just be a thousand.
Jen Ford Reedy:But so I didn't have, you know, a strong sense of what might happen, but the little bit, like the indicators I had suggested it wasn't gonna be this big. So that's wonderful. We'll keep ordering new runs of it and and keep distributing it. Our partner locally, Black Garnet Books, is the one having to hustle to get the books out to everyone, but they're excited too. I mean, it's it's great to have that level of response.
Ellen Wolter:What do you think is precipitating all the interest in this book, I do you
Jen Ford Reedy:mean, the way I framed our purpose in those posts that you would have read, I think resonates with some people, which is like, we gotta do some things differently. We're not we're not figuring out how to overcome some of the the forces that we see at play in our country and then throughout our region and in our communities and in our neighborhoods around polarization and around social isolation and feeling like it gets in the way of a lot of things we want to do, a lot of things we want to be. Thinking for a lot of folks, us at the Bush Foundation included, who care a lot about our ability to come together and solve problems and keep making our communities work better for people, just thinking we've got to try something different. We need new mindsets. We need new skills.
Jen Ford Reedy:And, you know, maybe this can be it for you. And as we were thinking, maybe it can be it for us and just sort of offering something up to say, this is one new way potentially of of thinking about what your role can be and what actions you take in whatever work you're doing.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. I that's certainly the way that we've been thinking at Extension. And when I saw that you were doing this book club, I thought, oh, that's we're all thinking collectively about what does this mean to Bridge? How do we do this? And of course, this podcast focuses on rural and urban.
Ellen Wolter:So I'm really looking forward to digging into what that means for you at the Bush Foundation. As you read the book, Jen, what were some of the things that really resonated with you?
Jen Ford Reedy:I would say maybe a couple of things. I mean, one is just the concept of belonging and how fundamental that is and how if you are a person who cares about racial equity or cares about any kind of equity or wanting the world to be a better place, like the the power, the usefulness, the necessity actually of thinking bigger about what a community would actually be like to be a place where everyone feels like they belong and everyone is seen and valued and everybody has dignity and everybody has the ability to affect the direction of a community. That's a much bigger concept of belonging. I think John so beautifully makes the case that that should be where we're focused. We should be really focused at that higher level and that changes how we think about framing issues.
Jen Ford Reedy:It changes how we think about, you know, our own strategic orientation toward making communities work the way we wanna work. And because Bush Foundation is an organization that has talked a lot about racial equity and other kinds of equity and have a lot of concern about folks who have been traditionally marginalized. I think John's approach can really speak to folks who are coming to bridging work with that orientation Because I think there's often a concern that particularly for people who've been marginalized to come into a bridging conversation that it will not be respectful, it will not be realistic in some ways to feel like you can really bridge when there are situations or larger systems that bring people to issues in ways that are so unequal or with such different histories or sense of power. I think he does a really good job of acknowledging that, like saying, Yeah, no one's not realistic about the world. He understands everything that is hard about areas in which we have discrimination and hate.
Jen Ford Reedy:He's not naive, right? But he's saying it's the ability to figure out how to frame those issues and connect with people on those issues in a different way that is actually critical to being able to have that larger sense of belonging, which is then critical for really having communities where the different visions folks have for equity in whatever form can really actually come to life.
Ellen Wolter:I had a conversation the other day, and we were talking about, you know, what happens if you're not bridging. And that seems like a little bit of maybe what's happening right now in our communities is we're not bridging. And so the implications of that may be worse than if we are bridging. Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:Yeah. I think that's right on. You know, there's the risk of bridging and there's the risk of not bridging. Those are different for every different person, but in all different situations. There may be situations in which you feel like, oh, this is a good bridging moment.
Jen Ford Reedy:Can see how it'll work for me personally, and I see where something good could come from it. And that's not true of every situation. And a lot of times when people really, I think, shut down at the idea of bridging, they're imagining having to make chatty conversation with somebody that they think is the worst, or somebody who is truly hateful or truly denies their humanity. That is not what bridging needs to be. It's not what John means, certainly.
Jen Ford Reedy:I mean, there's there are way more basic, less threatening, easier ways that we could be bridging that we're not. And it's people who we believe a lot in common or we share a lot of values, but may still walk away uncomfortably from having the conversation about the things that we disagree in or the ways in which we are just not listening deeply to people who are in our lives and we care about them, but we're not really listening to understand their challenges, their dreams, to be able to have a more full, a more nuanced understanding of how a challenge affects people and to then be able to see the opportunities to actually make a difference on it. Mhmm. I've certainly gotten people, you know, I think anybody who talks about bridging does get some folks who are exasperated with the idea or threatened by the idea. Often having a picture of bridging that is not really what I have in mind or I think John has in mind or some of us who are promoting the concept have in mind.
Jen Ford Reedy:Also I think sometimes reflects the polarization in and of itself. Being so dug in on what someone believes and so sure that the other folks are so evil in every way that the idea of bridging feels like a capitulation. And in my view, it's actually being committed to making some progress because not bridging, I think, is the status quo. Right? So if you're not okay with the status quo for some reason, change generally requires bringing some other people along in some way, which generally requires really truly understanding where people are now and why they believe what they do now, and really getting a sense of where might there be overlaps or ways that we can come to a different shared understanding.
Jen Ford Reedy:I think anyone who works in bridging will say, If you're only thinking that bridging is about convincing somebody else to agree with what you agree with, then you're not quite getting the concept. And I think it's still true at the same time that if you're passionate about something, you would like to see change in the world and you don't have enough people in the world who agree with you. You've got bridging to do. And that's that's both to to bring other people along, but it's also to to much more deeply understand what it is you believe in a way that allows more people to see themselves in it.
Ellen Wolter:Mhmm. Yeah. No. That's absolutely true. And I I really appreciate what you said in the beginning of your point because I think John lays this out really well of because I think often in our society, everything's binary and it's simplified.
Ellen Wolter:Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:Yeah.
Ellen Wolter:But with bridging, you don't have to bridge with that particular person. You don't have to bridge with that particular situation. It's a very complex and nuanced way of being. And so I think that's a really important thing for folks to remember.
Jen Ford Reedy:I think absolutely. And I think John, a few times, basically says, you don't have to do it or you don't have to do it in those situations. Like, you know, what are your terms? And I think it also say, your terms shouldn't be, I have to feel perfectly safe and comfortable every minute of this conversation because then you're probably not really bridging. You know, that that there is gonna be some amount of vulnerability, some amount of discomfort in having a conversation that that acknowledges differences, is vulnerable to to enough of an extent that you actually get to understand somebody and someone gets to really understand you.
Jen Ford Reedy:So if you want to be in a truly safe space completely, know, bridging work maybe not for you. And and, you know, I think it also say we don't need everybody to bridge, but we need enough people to bridge. Right? We need a lot of people to bridge and enough of them to actually have some breakthroughs on how people are understanding issues in the world and understanding what community means to them and to each other. I have to be able to work toward any kind of vision that that really allows everyone to feel like they belong.
Ellen Wolter:This podcast is obviously about rural and urban dynamics and
Jen Ford Reedy:Mhmm.
Ellen Wolter:How rural and urban meet each other, but of course, the ways in which there's their attentions and there's a certainly a perpetuation in the dominant narratives that there's a divide. What are ways in which you think the Bush Foundation's service region kind of reflects some of those challenges and opportunities described in the book?
Jen Ford Reedy:Yeah. For sure. I mean, if you think about urban rural divide as, to some extent, mapping onto political divides, you know, our region is fifty fifty split, and two states tend to be colored red on election maps, and one state tends to be colored blue on election maps. But they're a mix of folks with different political beliefs, of course, all throughout those three states. So it's part of why I feel like we at the Bush Foundation have a real opportunity to do more, to try to find new ways to help people bridge and work toward belonging because I think our region you know, has all the same dynamics that we have all across the country related to rural urban divide and political divides.
Jen Ford Reedy:I'll regularly hear from my colleagues in rural areas that, for example, the way we're talking about an issue is not helping them. You know, we can be using language or talking about it with a mindset or approach that doesn't resonate in their communities and could even, you know, have the opposite effect in their communities of of making people react badly to some concepts that we talk about, which is clearly what we don't mean don't wanna do. So we've been trying to work on not just how we talk about issues, but how we understand issues for for years for us personally, you know, the the folks who work at the Bush Foundation to get better at at urban rural bridging. But we, you know, we call each other out on it regularly. I mean, I think you see examples sometimes where we'll be looking at a grant proposal or fellowship proposal from someone in a rural area.
Jen Ford Reedy:And the way they talk about an issue may be different than how we're used to talking to folks about the issue in in the Twin Cities. And and there's some amount where you you wanna question, does somebody have the depth or the nuance to be able to lead effectively in whatever community they're in. Right? But I think it takes for us constant mindfulness to make sure we are getting ourselves in the in the head in the context of people from non urban settings. As we look at a fellowship plan, as we look at a grant application and say like, this isn't what we would write.
Jen Ford Reedy:This isn't what we would maybe be dreaming for ourselves in our context, but does it make sense in the context that people are in? So it takes, you know, like like any good sort of grant making, I think it takes a lot of intentional work around sort of cultural agility and competence to to understand people in in their context.
Ellen Wolter:We navigate that a lot in extension as well. And it's different in every community too. You know, there are some words that are just kind of trigger words for certain people and finding ways where there are values that overlap that takes a lot of time and conversation and consistency with people. And it's necessary. Right?
Ellen Wolter:But it's really hard just like bridging, I think.
Jen Ford Reedy:Absolutely. And for a long time, we've offered, for example, supplemental grant funding to our ecosystem grantees, which are kind of the organizations that play intermediary roles with a lot of other organizations and leaders in in supporting problem solving. And we've provided additional funding to say, this is for you to build your capacity to work across difference, whatever that means in your context. And it's been really interesting to see, you know, what does it mean in different context? Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:If you're a native led, native serving organization, all of your all of your key constituents are native. What is what is working across difference look like in your context? And there's always something. Alright. There's it's there's always some kind of divide or some kind of tension or some kind of difference that shows up in your work.
Jen Ford Reedy:And it's about do you have mindsets and do you have the skill sets to say like, oh, we're breaking down here. This is a way where we need to do some work to understand whether the way we are showing up, way we're delivering our services, actually working for everyone we intend it to. How can we identify who it's not working for and then figure out, you know, what we need to learn and be for ourselves, but also what we need to do differently to actually be able to serve people the way we mean to?
Ellen Wolter:Well, that's really interesting. We've been talking more with my colleagues about normalizing conflict because like like you said, there's always going to be some kind of divide no matter what community or there's always gonna be some kind of conflict because we're human beings. So finding a way to normalize that and then just have these tools that are available to us to be able to navigate that conflict, which is in some ways a form of bridging too. What are some of the ways, and maybe you're still working on this at the Bush Foundation, but what are some of the ways that you feel like you're adapting your strategy or maybe thinking about things a little bit differently as you think about how to incorporate even more than you're already doing bridging into your work?
Jen Ford Reedy:Well, I should say that, you know, this as a Bush Foundation Bridge Club was earnest. Like, is really that we as the staff were reading this book and going to learn from this book and talk about the implications for our work. So it's it's not that we think, you know, we're ahead of other people in this area to trying to bring people along. It's like we're we're wanting to we are in this learning ourselves and and wanting to share that experience with others. So, you know, we have a staff book club in August, and then we have our staff retreat in September, real working time to say, what would it look like for us to do our work differently if we adopt these principles?
Jen Ford Reedy:What does it mean? Like, how do we show up? So we've been doing things around the edges. We've been certainly doing some grant making that relates to bridging and some of the things that feed into polarization like misinformation, making sure people have good information or, good news coverage, those kinds of things that we can say, you know, are related. They're in this mix.
Jen Ford Reedy:But I think we're really trying to understand now if we were to think of ourselves as a force for bridging in a much bigger way, what could that look like? And so we're in the fun daydreaming part of of developing any sort of initiative. But I'll tell you, you know, when I've gone to some national meetings and things related to bridging and the National Council of Foundations, I'm on the board there and that's it's a really high priority for them to support more foundations to do more bridging work, feeling like that's really important role for philanthropy in our country. You know, a lot of what people end up recommending really aligns with the work that Bush does. There's such a big part of overcoming polarization that's about getting stuff done together.
Jen Ford Reedy:And, you know, our main grant program, the most the funding that we provide is for people to come together in a community and look at a problem in a different way and work together on the problem a different way and come up with some new solution. So it's heartening for us to feel like, oh, this work we're doing even at the local level is actually a part of the big grand national solution that we're looking for. And in fact, it may be the most important thing we can be doing is actually behaving differently toward each other on the local level, and that that's what's going to actually help to reverse the the national trends, I think, around polarization. I think there's a a kind of relocalization that we need to have where it's a real challenge in a community here at in traveling around the region talking to people if their, you know, their small town school board election becomes, you know, a referendum on a national cultural or issue. That's really a challenge for for all the people in that system and the families who are relying on that school system.
Jen Ford Reedy:And, you know, so I think there are a lot of people who, even if they're super engaged in national politics, would like to see, you know, that ability to to think locally and act locally in a way that really does build that connection and sense of community. So there are ways in which our purpose around supporting community problem solving at Bush, we feel like is really aligned. So to do more of that, and then it's how to do that and talk about it and bring other people into the work in a way that supports and encourages more people to think about what it could look like for them to be a part of problem solving effort or to be part of a bridging effort that could make a meaningful difference on something that they truly care about Mhmm. And have this amazing important residual benefit of getting us better at bridging and belonging.
Ellen Wolter:So Jen, you you raised this earlier, but one of the concerns that people have about bridging, think, is as you said before, John lays it out so nicely in his book about the complexities behind bridging. But people have concerns about, you know, are you overlooking power imbalances and structural inequities and voices that are typically marginalized and it's not fair to put people in situations where they might feel uncomfortable or unsafe if they are from a marginalized community. Are bridging projects or programs or research you've read where you have seen that done well and seen it done in a way that kind of avoids some of those pitfalls?
Jen Ford Reedy:Well, think I'm with John where in, you know, at the end of the book where he's kinda given you tips for what to actually do, he kinda says there's not a technique that always works, right? Because any technique can be applied well or applied poorly. Right? You can have a a way of setting up a good bridging conversation that works beautifully well for a group of ranchers and environmentalists to talk about a certain kind of issue that could work horribly. I think what he's offers really is that the spirit that you bring to it is almost more important than what the particular technique is.
Jen Ford Reedy:And I think he gives a lot of resources of people who do have good techniques, which I appreciate that people can look up some of those groups. And I think the spirit of bridging, the good spirit of bridging has to take into account power imbalances and has to be oriented toward designing situations that allow people to actually be able to engage authentically without having structural imbalance or personal dynamics even that will make it too difficult for people to come in the open spirit that you need for bridging to happen. So I appreciate that about how he how he talks about the work, and I think it goes back to what we've talked about earlier, which is, you know, which which are the bridges that are possible for you. Right? Which are the bridges that are appropriate for you?
Jen Ford Reedy:And that's just gonna vary so much person by person, situation by situation. And I think, you know, the idea of starting with small short bridges and then going longer and longer and longer. And I think you you get better and better at it so that then you do have some people who are extraordinary at it, who can really get into those situations where the power imbalances are are really big and and hold their own and do it. And that's extraordinary, you know. Bridging can happen in those situations, but it takes somebody with a lot of skill and a lot of comfort and confidence to be in that situation.
Jen Ford Reedy:I think you see, like, John is an example of somebody who's who's really mastered a lot of the skills of bridging and built that comfort over time. I think most of us couldn't do that, couldn't do what he does. And so I think starting with the the short bridges where you do have quite a bit of comfort in the setup for the conversation and perhaps the relationship you have with somebody. And then you can just sort of go little further, little further, little further in your bridging, as your your skills and comfort increase. And then recognizing that for everybody, there are some that are just, you know, no gos.
Jen Ford Reedy:I mean, John describes situations where he laid out what the conditions would be for him to meet with somebody and they said no, and that's fine. Like so being able to know that for yourself and be able to say, like, to meet know, these things would need to be true. I need this is what I need to feel comfortable enough. And that too, I think you get a sense of as you practice. Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:Because you, you know, with each experience, I think, get a a better sense for yourself of what works and what doesn't work.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. It makes me think too, Jenny. I know you were saying before about the Bush Foundation's kinda still, you know, figuring out their strategy. Like, what does this mean? And certainly we are at Extension as well.
Ellen Wolter:And it makes me realize that we're all figuring it out. We're all going to kind of figure it out as we go what this looks like. There isn't a lot of evidence or research to guide us. So we're all navigating this together. And I was having a conversation with somebody last night about whether or not we used to bridge better than we do now.
Ellen Wolter:You know, when democracy seemed to be functioning better, were we better at bridging?
Jen Ford Reedy:No. I think sometimes we can romanticize our past in lots of ways. And and that can be true in bridging, you know, and and things related to polarization. And I always think about the fact, like, there was a time when our government, like the US government, was like a few people, you know, George Washington and a few other
Ellen Wolter:guys. Right.
Jen Ford Reedy:Like, we're the only people really working for us. Right? And the, you know, the vice president and the treasury secretary, like, fought each other in a duel, you know. Like, I don't think there is a good old days, you know
Ellen Wolter:Fair enough.
Jen Ford Reedy:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we weren't polarized. I think it's played out differently at different times.
Jen Ford Reedy:But I I think even when people talk in romantic terms about when all the senators used to get along and all smoke cigars together, you know, at the end of the day and all their daughters went to ballet lessons together, whatever that is, I think those people had a lot more in common than our senators do today. So they were all almost exclusively, right? White, male, mostly lawyers, pretty well-to-do, similar educational backgrounds and life experiences. I think they weren't having to do much bridging because they had so much in common. I think one of the things that I think is is great about who is elected in this country, is much more reflective of diversity of life experience, diversity of background.
Jen Ford Reedy:Still not, you know, perfectly reflective of that, not close to perfectly reflective of that, but more so than it was then. So I think it requires a different level of skill and intention to bridge as an elected official today Mhmm. Than was true before. And I think that is actually because we have way more points of view and way more different experiences reflected in our our public life. And in some ways, it's a good thing for us where where we have the, you know, the challenges in forging that ground.
Jen Ford Reedy:It can it can in some cases mean a lot more people are engaged and bringing different points of view. Now, the polarization part where we simplify all of that down to two things is a different sort of dynamic in some ways, but I think life requires more bridging now in a lot of different aspects of our society than used to be true. So I think we have to raise our game to really be the leaders, be the citizens, be the neighbors, be good in our roles in in our democracy.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. It's requiring new skills for people that have maybe been more comfortable and traditionally in power. And then new skills for those of us who maybe are reaching out to those people who are who've been traditionally in power and pushing back against some of those points of view that they don't agree with.
Jen Ford Reedy:And and sometimes it's when we have higher standards. Like, I think about it in education. Like, we have an education system that was built when it was fine if, like, half the kids could make it through high school and going to college. Like, we're just fine with that. You know, we'll we'll batch all the kids together by age, teach them the same way, at the same rate.
Jen Ford Reedy:A lot of them are gonna drop out, not gonna make it, but that's fine. We'll get enough of the people we need. And now we have an expectation for our education system that it should work for every kid. Right? That's a good thing that we have that higher expectation, but that's a different challenge for for teachers, for administrators, for families, like, and you're working within a system that wasn't built with that intention.
Jen Ford Reedy:It really requires new skills of every person in it, but it also requires the will and the ability to make structural changes in a system that are really hard. Think, you know, figuring out how to really fundamentally redesign organizations and systems is hard work, and we need to do that with almost every organization and system we have. And it's not it's not easy to do.
Ellen Wolter:Mhmm. But necessary. Yeah.
Jen Ford Reedy:Necessary. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you want to have a country, a region, a community where everybody really thrives Mhmm. If you really wanted to work, then, you know, stuff has to change.
Jen Ford Reedy:You really have to reconsider basic elements of how you function, and some of that is formal policies, and some of that is just your habits of how you interact. Now there's more required of us than used to be true for a whole variety of reasons, but certainly polarization makes it harder when you're in a situation where, you know, if people want you to be seen as loyal to a particular point of view or, you know, get upset if you are willing to talk with somebody who's not in your camp. It it makes it a lot harder. So it really is what does it mean to have like a truly flourishing, multiracial, multicultural, multi everything democracy. You know, we've we've always been the experiment.
Jen Ford Reedy:Right? The American experiment. And we're sort of in a different stage of our ongoing experiment.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. We are. We are. We're all learning as we go. So well, what are ways that you think larger institutions like the Bush Foundation and I include the University of Minnesota in this, other larger institutions can play in modeling what bridging looks like, particularly across rural and urban because that's really the focus of this this podcast, but other other aspects of polarization and division too.
Jen Ford Reedy:I think one way that big organizations can model is by doing it. Right? Actually actively engaging in bridging work, But then showing your work, not just saying we did this thing, isn't that great, but saying this is what it took for us to do that. I think there's something about breaking down something into a first, it took this, then we did this, then we like, that gives other people a road map to say, oh, okay. Wait.
Jen Ford Reedy:I see how I could do that too. And to the extent places like Bush or University of Minnesota or other places wanna be a model, I think it requires some of that breaking it down and showing our work. I think also in in bridging like a lot of things, I think being able to find every opportunity to show that it's a skill set that you have to learn and practice is really helpful because it is a mindset. It is an orientation, but it also takes practice to do it well. So I think doing the work within our own organizations, offering it up to other people if we can, but at least showing other people, like, we're having to work at this.
Jen Ford Reedy:Like, this is not something we can just do. We know. We have enough respect for the challenges of bridging to say we've gotta practice and we've gotta build these skills and to help other people see that it will require some investment on their part to get good at doing it. And I think there are plenty of ways where we can get people inspired and energized to go do all kinds of work without making it clear what skills are involved to do it well and then undermine our own in intent. I personally think that's a big part of the backlash right now around diversity, equity, inclusion work is that we maybe had more people leading that work than had the skills to do it well.
Jen Ford Reedy:So I think in a lot of organizations, you did have DEI done poorly, and DEI done poorly really can be divisive and upsetting and all these things that you hear, you know, people criticizing the entire movement as which, you know, I happen to think and believe and have experienced that DEI work done well can be transformative. But to me, that's just an example of where, you know, you have to be explicit about the skills required and keep it in in sync like that that we're doing work that you can do well and then intentionally learning from it, getting better and doing a little harder work and then learning how to do that well and and continuing to grow as opposed to naively, cavalierly believing that you can do the work well without without practice.
Ellen Wolter:If you think about a future where
Ellen Wolter:bridging has taken deeper root in our society, what kinds of things does that look like for you? What gives you hope that we'll get there eventually? That we'll eventually figure out it won't be perfect, I know, but figure out a way in which we can bridge better in our communities.
Jen Ford Reedy:One of the things that's amazing about my job is that I get to interact every day with people who believe something better is possible. Right? I mean, that's actually one of our operating values at the Bush Foundation is spread optimism, which basically means to me optimism that you believe that something better is possible. It doesn't mean you're always positive. It doesn't mean you're unrealistic.
Jen Ford Reedy:It it just means, like, you believe something better is possible. And so we're around and inspired by organizations, individuals every day who are are going after some big vision of how to make the world better. And I feel a lot of optimism as I interact with those folks. I also regularly draw optimism from looking at great change efforts of the past. You know, when people have successfully gotten together and really made a big difference on something.
Jen Ford Reedy:We have we have so many examples that we can look at in the history of our country, history of the world where people have really changed our culture, our American culture. Like, it happens all the time. It happens around us constantly in ways that we're not even conscious of. Like, I mean, I remember talking to my dad one time where he said he never believed that people would pump their own gas. Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:Like, That was impossible, right? So sometimes it just happens. But sometimes it happens through really intentional effort. One of my favorite example is drunk driving, where in a few decades, deaths from drunk driving went I mean, just dramatically decreased. Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:And that took a huge culture change. I mean, was like a wonky criminal justice issue. And it was bad luck if you got into an accident while you were driving. Right? It was and really a mom and then a group of moms created mad and changed our entire culture around drinking.
Jen Ford Reedy:There wasn't something called a designated driver. The motto, friends don't let friends drive drunk. Right? That changed so so much behavior all around the country and that's incredible. And I think we have these efforts like that where sometimes you think, well, it happened.
Jen Ford Reedy:Like, so it doesn't seem like it's quite as hard. But imagine being back in 1982 thinking, how are we gonna do this? How are we gonna pull this off? And they did. So I get energy and optimism from looking at ways in which people have intentionally changed our culture and thinking, okay, what does that look like for bridging?
Jen Ford Reedy:What does it look like for a different kind of civic discourse? What does it look like for different ways of people coming together to solve problems? And I think anger is activating, but anger is also exhausting. And you see poll data constantly about how many people in the country are tired of the negative and polarized political environment. Like, I think you increasingly have people who are ready for another way.
Jen Ford Reedy:I think the fact that so many people responded to our offer of John's book to me is a meaningful indicator. I think there are people who are ready to do something different, but I think culture change requires that we act differently toward each other. I mean, that's the definition of culture. Right? It's like how do we treat each other?
Jen Ford Reedy:How do we hold each other accountable? And so I think the answer around belonging around bridging is gonna come from more of us just acting differently toward each other. That's it. I mean, it's such a little ex explanation, but it's so big because that is actually how culture change happens. So I think when your work and our work, like being people who are trying to act differently, are trying to model, trying to think about what works, what helps people to be able to act differently toward each other, what supports that kind of culture change.
Jen Ford Reedy:It's doable. It's doable.
Ellen Wolter:I mean, I can't even remember a time when we didn't talk about designated drivers. Yeah.
Jen Ford Reedy:Or Yeah.
Ellen Wolter:It's incredible. Or even like women in the was it nineteen seventies couldn't open a credit card without their husband's permission? The
Jen Ford Reedy:women's movement is really an incredible one. And I think one of the things I love about the women's movement is that a meaningful part of its origin were these consciousness raising circles that were literally like women getting together to talk about the fact that the status quo wasn't working for them and kind of open each other's minds to it and then embolden each other to ask for something different, to demand something different, to act differently. It was really actually small groups of people coming together and saying, wait, Wait. Wait. Wait.
Jen Ford Reedy:This isn't good. We don't wanna stand for it anymore. Let's do something different and let's bring others people along. If you think about whatever issue you really care about right now in the world, like thing you're really passionate about, the odds that that issue is going to be resolved by people saying more loudly the things they're already saying is basically zero. Right?
Jen Ford Reedy:It's it's not gonna get solved by the people who already believe the thing that you believe talking to each other about how much they believe it. Right? It can only happen by bringing other people into a conversation, by finding other ways to talk about it that makes sense to other people. There's some part of bridging that is just essential for making change on any issue you care about. And so if you are somebody who says, I am not a bridger like I'm principal, I am not a bridger, then you are sitting out the core work of making change on whatever it is that that you care about.
Jen Ford Reedy:Like bridging is fundamental. Bridging is where problem solving happens and change requires bridging. I think the history of change in our country, it'd be really difficult to find any movement, any social change in history that didn't involve some really skilled bridgers trying to figure out how to bring other people in to see common interests to be able to to make some change happen. So if people are thinking of bridging just as kind of a romantic concept or sort of something that's on the fringe of what's relevant to them, I think that's a misunderstanding of the power of bridging and the importance of bridging to making progress on really anything.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. One of the things I try to remember, Jen, that is I think hard sometimes to remember, especially in our era of polarization, is not to freeze people in time to your point. You just never know. And that includes myself. I mean, I've changed on ideas and perspectives, now I didn't know that.
Ellen Wolter:And let me think about that a little bit differently, and the same goes for other people too.
Jen Ford Reedy:I was having coffee not too long ago with a Bush fellow. We were talking about the importance of bridging and she basically said like, I don't even agree with myself last year.
Ellen Wolter:Yeah. That's fair enough. Yes.
Jen Ford Reedy:We're all evolving all the time. It's part of the optimism too is like, how do you understand that we all can grow and change and to support each other to grow and change in in positive ways.
Ellen Wolter:Well, Jen, thank you so much for taking the time today. I really
Jen Ford Reedy:Sure.
Ellen Wolter:Appreciated our conversation and excited to see how the Bush Foundation is learning and growing and figuring out bridging, we're doing the same at Extension. So let's all keep talking and figuring this out.
Jen Ford Reedy:Absolutely. Thanks for having me, and thanks for doing this work.
Ellen Wolter:Thank you for listening to Side by Side. We welcome your emails at sidebysideumn dot edu. Side by Side is a production of the University of Minnesota Extension and is written and hosted by me, Ellen Walter. Special thanks to Jan Jekula, who designed our wonderful logo, and Jim Griswold, who sings and plays guitar in our opening and closing credits. You can find episodes of side by side wherever you get
Ellen Wolter:your podcasts.
Ellen Wolter:We'll be back next week with another episode. I'm Ellen Walter, and this is side by side.
